258. Why you need a brand before you need an app
Jun 11, 2025
Most founders dive straight into building — features, user flows, no-code tools — before they’ve nailed the strategy that actually drives traction: brand.
In this episode, Sophia Matveeva shares why brand must come before product, especially for non-technical founders building tech-enabled businesses.
You’ll learn the four brand foundations every founder needs — whether you’re launching a new venture or scaling an existing one:
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Clarity — Who you serve and why you exist
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Story — What problem you solve and what’s at stake
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Trust Signals — How to build credibility before or beyond your user base
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Voice — How to speak to your market without jargon
Sophia also shares examples from Uber, Goldman Sachs, and her own company, Tech for Non-Techies, which is trusted by governments and Fortune 500s to teach non-technical leaders how to succeed in the digital economy.
If you want customers, talent, and investors to take your venture seriously — and you’re not building brand strategically — this episode is for you.
Chapters
00:00 – Code vs Brand
01:11 – Logos Are Not Brands
02:37 – Why Trust Matters More Than Features
04:37 – Non-Technical Founders’ Common Mistake: Features Before Brand
09:38 – Investors Back Missions, Not Apps
11:40 – Think Like an Investor
12:30 – 4 Brand Foundations Before Product
18:13 – What’s Next: Cannes Lions Insights
Episodes to help you build your personal brand:
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Transcript
Sophia Matveeva (00:00.366)
Code builds product, but brands build companies. And in this lesson, I'll show you how to use brand as a strategic weapon from day one.
Sophia Matveeva (00:12.846)
Welcome to the Tech for on Techies podcast. I'm your host, tech entrepreneur, executive coach at Chicago Booth MBA, Sophia Matheva. My aim here is to help you have a great career in the digital age. In a time when even your coffee shop has an app, you simply have to speak tech. On this podcast, I share core technology concepts, help you relate them to business outcomes, and most importantly, share practical advice
on what you can do to become a digital leader today. If you want to a great career in the digital age, this podcast is for you. Hello, smart people. How are you today? If we haven't met yet, hello, I am Sophia Matveva. I am a non-technical founder who has built tech businesses from scratch without coding. And I've helped government and Fortune 500 upskill the digital economy.
And this show is where non-technical founders learn how to build tech ventures and great careers without drowning tech jargon. And if that's your goal, then hit subscribe. So first of all, when I talk about Rand, I think that quite a few of you might think, logos, I need to get a pretty logo. Please, for the love of God, do not do this. Honestly, I have made logos on Canva myself, and I've also hired people from Fiverr for a hundred bucks to create a logo.
So please, please do not obsess over logos before you have anything because a logo is not a brand. A brand is something that goes much further. And the thing is, an app, that's just a product. A logo is just a logo. A brand is about trust. And what I mean about brand building is about building trust. So why does trust actually matter more than features and what features you should have in your product?
Because trust gets you early users. So early users have to trust that this new thing that they've never used before is going to be decent or at least going to be approved. Trust attracts investors because investors have to trust you that you're actually going to do the thing you said you were going to do. And trust builds teams because if you're not trustworthy, then nobody's going to want to work with you. And the thing is, apps are very easy to copy, especially now. know, like you could just
Sophia Matveeva (02:36.815)
take, I don't know, WhatsApp, take that screen, put it onto Galileo and then it will make you another version. are easy to copy, but trust, i.e. brand, is not. This is why on the Tech Fun on Techie show where we often cover technology, I really want you to understand why brand is so important and not to confuse it with silly things like logos and fonts. And this comes at a really perfect time.
because actually we're doing a brand focused mini series because right now it's can line season and can lines, if you haven't yet heard of it, it is like the advertising industries Oscars. So it's where all the big ad agencies, the big brands, celebrities, and also the big tech companies that are funded by ad that are basically funded by advertising where they get together in the French Riviera and give, give awards and have events and so on. And I am going, it's happening next week and I have
Just arrived in the Côte d'Azur early. So it's fabulous. Bonjour. If you've never been to the French Riviera, what are you doing? It is amazing. You should come. Okay. Here's what we are going to cover in this lesson. So we're going to cover what brand is. We're going to cover why it matters for tech-in-aid businesses. And we're going to talk about the four things you need to focus on before product development. So you might want to take note. Okay. So here is a.
common mistake that I see in my classes. So when non-technical founders join a non-technical founders course, I often see that they have this idea, they might even have a list of features that they want to have. And the features might be actually pretty vague, like we need to have gamification, we need to have a community board, and then people are going to get notifications about community posts. And I think, okay, why? So basically I have to stop them in their tracks.
because I say, honey, we need to define your brand positioning first. So brand positioning consists of four major components. So who's your audience? What is your brand promise? What is your brand identity? And what is your emotional pull? And this kind of sounds a bit weird and abstract. So I am going to give you an example of tech for non-techies. And if you're watching this, if you're listening to this,
Sophia Matveeva (04:53.401)
You are at least a little bit familiar, even if we've just met with the Tech Non-Techies brand. So I will show you what these four components mean in practice. So number one, our audience, they're non-technical founders. So that could be corporate innovators. It could be existing business owners that want to add tech to their business, or it might be early stage founders. So, you know, maybe you've just had an idea for an app, but all of these people are not coders. They're not developers. So audience and non-technical founders. What's our brand promise?
Our brand promise is to make tech accessible and interesting without jargon and we use lots and lots of examples and anecdotes to basically make sure that tech is accessible and that it's interesting. So I'm actually giving you an example of a concept right now. What's our brand identity? Our brand identity is excellence, intelligence and humor. So you might have
picked up on that even unconsciously when I said hello smart people I always open a show I always open a lesson with hello smart people. It basically seems that you're clever I'm clever we're gonna do some clever stuff together but also we don't take ourselves too seriously. And what's our emotional pull? Well we are the antidote to the tech bros so I have personally gone through the same struggles and confusions that you have.
And so I know that it can be really overwhelming and frankly unpleasant and humiliating to be locked out of the tech world. so Techful on Techies is built in the belief that you do not have to be a coder to lead. This is why I bring you lots of examples of non-technical founders who have succeeded. And also our instructors are selected specifically only if they can speak clearly and in an interesting way to a non-technical audience. So you've now got a pretty clear idea.
of the Tecsono-Tequis brand. And now, without checking, do you know our brand colours? Do you know what our logo looks like? Do you know what our font is? Do you care? I expect you don't. So do you see my point? A brand is not a logo. So the main thing that I want you to remember is that brand is what people feel and believe
Sophia Matveeva (07:11.332)
about your company when you are not in the room. Brand is the emotional shortcut that gets you chosen, especially when your product is early and imperfect. And let me tell you, your product is going to be very imperfect, even when it's not early. Okay. And this is also why, you know, trust and what people say about you when you're not in the room. This is also why personal brand is especially important for founders because, you know, your personal brand is going to be older and more established than actually your company brand.
But that is another topic. We don't have the time in this lesson to talk about your personal brand, but I have done other episodes on personal branding and I've linked those in the show notes. If you want to learn about personal branding for non-technical founders, which I really recommend you do, then just click on the links below. Okay. So why should non-technical founders especially focus on brand early? Well, you're not technical. You're not competing on code, are you?
So you gotta have a strength and I suggest that brand is going to be your strength. So early customers are going to forgive imperfect results if they believe in your brand and if they believe in your mission. And so if you're not technical and you're not focusing on building the infrastructure, you are focusing on the brand. are like literally two things. You're either making the product or you are selling the product. So the brand is part of selling. Okay.
I just mentioned the word mission and I don't know about you, but whenever I hear people talk about company missions, I get really annoyed because I think, my God, it's going to be some sort of do-goodery thing. You know, like maybe you're selling nuclear weapons, but actually you're talking about your mission to save the world. That's not what I mean. A brand at a mission do not mean that you have to pretend to be a do-gooder. So for example, let's look at Goldman Sachs.
Goldman Sachs, the investment bank, they are not warm and fuzzy. They don't try to be warm and fuzzy. Goldman Sachs bankers, you know, don't go around giving hugs. I hope not anyway. their brand stands for excellent. It stands for high standard. It stands for, okay, we are really expensive and we give you an amazing, amazing service. Let's take another brand, which is definitely not a do-gooder. McDonald's. Okay, they literally make
Sophia Matveeva (09:37.516)
junk food that makes you fat and is a major contributor to their obesity epidemic. They're not do-good-ess, they're not noble, but their brand, their brand and their mission is basically delivering consistently decent food all around the world. So I've been to McDonald's in Delhi and in New York and it's pretty much the same. Okay. So the thing is, investors back missions and not just apps.
And this is not because investors say we want to back companies that change the world for the better. Don't listen to that. Investors are in it for the money. The thing is, a mission is scalable. An app is just a product and a product can be easily copied. What VCs, what investors want to do is they want to fund category leaders. They want to fund platforms. They want to fund movements. Again, since we should watch it, I'll give you an example. Let's look at Uber.
Uber's product is pretty simple. It's press a button, get a ride. But what's their mission? Their mission is transportation that is as reliable as running water. And they wanted to disrupt how we get around. And honestly, it worked. I use them all the time. So, VCs backed Uber's mission and not just the app. Because for example, there's also Lyft that has basically the same app.
It also kind of have a similar mission, but anyway, that's another story. So what I want you to see is that investors back ambition, scalability and human problems. So you're not just solving a tech problem. You're not just creating an app. You're solving a human problem. And the human problem is what brand building is all about because brand building is about trust. Okay. When I talk about investors, I do not want you to think that the only way to be successful is to raise money.
So I raise money for my first company. I have not raised money for my second company. Frankly, I am doing much better and really enjoying myself in my second company. So my advice to you is don't raise money unless you have to and unless you have a really, really good reason and do your best to resist this kind of atmosphere that we're in right now where fundraising and success and fundraising is like success as being a business person. Those are very different things.
Sophia Matveeva (12:02.652)
But the reason why I wanted to talk to you about what investors are looking for is I want you to see yourself as an investor. If you are building a company, if you're building a new product, are investing your time. Okay. Money renews, time does not. Time is your only non-renewable asset. So the more you think like an investor does, the more you see yourself as an investor, the better decisions that you will make. So that bit that I talked to you about, how investors think, that's how I want you to think.
It's not about fundraising because fundraising might not be right for you. Okay. So now as a result of all this theory, what are we going to do? So here are four brown foundations I want you to work on before you start touching anything to do with product. So foundation number one, clarity. Do you know who you serve? Do you know why you exist? Who are you serving? You really need to understand your target customer. Number two.
What's your brand story? So what problem are you solving? What is at stake? And the reason why this is a story actually really helps to think about, you know, when this person experiences this problem and we don't exist, then bad things happen. But when this person experiences this problem and then we exist, good things happen. This is why clarity and story are really, really interconnected. Number three, what trust?
signals do you have that basically people trust you and are willing to back you and you can get these trust signals without building product. Do you have an email list, for example, of people who are going to be, who are interested in your product even before you launch? Do you have like a list of beta users? Do you have a social media following for this product, for the mission that you're building, for the brand? Have you done
interviews with users. So for example, social media following, that's going to be more relevant to B2C. But for B2B, you should have definitely done interviews with users. And those interviews should indicate that these people are going to be interested in what you're doing because you've got clarity on who you serve, you've got clarity on the problem. And now you've got some people who said, yes, when this comes out, please let me know. Do you maybe have a community wait list?
Sophia Matveeva (14:25.346)
All of these trust signals you can get and you should get before you start fiddling around with Figma or Galileo or talking to designers and definitely before talking to developers. Okay, and the number four thing is that I want you to speak human and not tech. And non-technical founders and technical founders are both guilty of this. And I want you to describe your... I want you to have clarity.
I want you to describe your story. want you to have trust signals and to describe all of them in a human normal way, not like a tech-pro weirdo. So I'm going to give you an example. Here is tech jargon. Our platform leverages blockchain to decentralize financial transactions. What is that? Why are these words together? That should not be said ever. Okay, human voice instead. We make it faster and cheaper for you to borrow money from real people.
not banks, all online. Okay, which one of these do you understand? You understand the human one. And the thing is with this kind of tech bro speak sometimes it does make us feel stupid because we don't get it and we think, well, maybe I should understand it. Actually, no, you shouldn't understand it. They're idiots for speaking like that. Don't speak like an idiot. Okay, so once you've got these four elements, then you could actually use this human description of what you're doing to
build a landing page and then gain further trust. You can use all of these tools to speak to user experience designer to tell them what problem you're solving, for whom, why people want you to solve this problem because you've done user interviews and you can actually explain what you were doing and why in human language. You can do this with a user experience designer or if you don't want to speak to user experience designer first because they do cost money.
You could actually use AI tools like Galileo effectively because you could use those four aspects literally as prompt to put into an AI designer. And then the likelihood of those designs actually being quite decent is much, much higher than if you would basically just winning it. So please, please promise me you're going to work on brand first. You are not going to.
Sophia Matveeva (16:44.05)
open an AI code builder or an AI designer and just start fiddling. Because that can be fun, but it doesn't usually lead to good results. Okay, so what are the four elements? The four elements are clarity. Who do you serve and why do you exist? Number two, story. What problem do you solve and what is at stake if this problem does not get solved? Number three,
Have you collected any trust signals from your potential users? Do you have an email list of beta users? Do you have a social following? Have you done interviews with potential users? Maybe do you have a community wait list? And number four is your voice. Are you capable of explaining what you're doing in human, not in tech? Okay, so those are your four elements. And so just remember, you've forgotten everything I've said. Remember that you're not just building an app.
you are building trust and trust gets you users, trust gets you investors and trust builds teams. Because apps are easy to copy these days, especially, but trust is not. This is why I want you to begin building brand. I want you to begin building trust before you even think about what features you are going to have. my dear smart people, this is the end of today's lesson. So if you found this lesson useful,
and I assume you did because you're still watching this. Then please leave this show a rating and a review on Apple or on Spotify or just press like down below if you're watching on YouTube. That would really warm my heart. And subscribe if you haven't yet because if you want to learn how to build tech companies without drowning in tech jargon, then obviously tech-fun techies is what you need to be listening to. And next week I'll be
with you from Cannes. So I'll be talking to you from the Cannes Lions and I'll be sharing what we as founders, what we as innovators can learn from the biggest brands. That's going to be a really interesting episode. On that note, have a wonderful day and I'll be back with you next week. Ciao.
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